1. nefariousnewt: Excellent. I’m copying this onto an index card and keeping it in my wallet. 1) Anon seems to be saying “I don’t actually know that life doesn’t start at conception, but that is what I’d like to believe, so please tell me something that will let me continue to believe it. 2) I’ve never seen a house that was built by cell division and differentiation. If you stop building after you lay your foundation, you will never get a house, but through no action on your part, a human will continue to grow unless it dies. Even when it reaches adulthood and stops “growing” the cells will continue to replace themselves. There is no basis for this comparison, and I’m really surprised by the amount of people who seem to think this is the answer they’ve been looking for.

    nefariousnewt:

    Excellent. I’m copying this onto an index card and keeping it in my wallet.

    1) Anon seems to be saying “I don’t actually know that life doesn’t start at conception, but that is what I’d like to believe, so please tell me something that will let me continue to believe it.

    2) I’ve never seen a house that was built by cell division and differentiation. If you stop building after you lay your foundation, you will never get a house, but through no action on your part, a human will continue to grow unless it dies. Even when it reaches adulthood and stops “growing” the cells will continue to replace themselves. There is no basis for this comparison, and I’m really surprised by the amount of people who seem to think this is the answer they’ve been looking for.

  2. tawdryface:

    babysaver:

    tawdryface:

    cyanide-ballet:

    “but that aborted baby could have cured cancer!”

    so could have the person who had to give up studies because of an unwanted pregnancy

    so could have the person who died while giving birth

    so could have the person who killed themselves because of bullying

    so could have the person who died from an illegal abortion

    so could have the person pressured into not following their dreams

    so could have millions of kids without homes, if given a chance

    i dont see you defending them

    fuck you 

    and imagine if that baby you tried so hard to “protect” turned out to be gay

    where is your god now

    God loves gay people.

    And there are certainly people who hold a pro-life viewpoint who make exceptions for a threat to the mother’s life (“dying in childbirth” example). Most are against bullying, and would certainly try to talk to their friends if they were suicidal (suicide example). Many would encourage the people they care about to follow their dreams (why is this example even here). Many seek improvements in the foster system, and allowing same-sex couples to adopt. That covers the “giving up studies” and “homeless children” examples. If you think that people who oppose abortion have no other thoughts about anything else, you’re an idiot, though I would imagine you don’t actually believe that and are just trying to paint them negatively.

    If you can’t even tell when a comment is meant to be a joke and not to reflect the opinions of the person who comments (who by the way has no definite opinion on the matter so don’t you dare jump to conclusions based on two lines of text and say I’m “painting people negatively”), then honestly I don’t think I’m the idiot here.

    I thought I already responded to this, but it’s not showing up. Sorry if it shows up twice.

    I apologize. “God loves gay people” was directed at you, and the rest was directed at the OP. I meant to indicate that with my paragraph break, but I should have actually said so, too.

  3. tawdryface:

    cyanide-ballet:

    “but that aborted baby could have cured cancer!”

    so could have the person who had to give up studies because of an unwanted pregnancy

    so could have the person who died while giving birth

    so could have the person who killed themselves because of bullying

    so could have the person who died from an illegal abortion

    so could have the person pressured into not following their dreams

    so could have millions of kids without homes, if given a chance

    i dont see you defending them

    fuck you 

    and imagine if that baby you tried so hard to “protect” turned out to be gay

    where is your god now

    God loves gay people.

    And there are certainly people who hold a pro-life viewpoint who make exceptions for a threat to the mother’s life (“dying in childbirth” example). Most are against bullying, and would certainly try to talk to their friends if they were suicidal (suicide example). Many would encourage the people they care about to follow their dreams (why is this example even here). Many seek improvements in the foster system, and allowing same-sex couples to adopt. That covers the “giving up studies” and “homeless children” examples. If you think that people who oppose abortion have no other thoughts about anything else, you’re an idiot, though I would imagine you don’t actually believe that and are just trying to paint them negatively.

  4. thundercaya: “If it was human we’d call it a fucking human.” Let’s not forget all the groups who were at one time not considered human. “It’s the mother’s fetus.” Except that it has its own DNA strand, not identical to that of the mother. It’s not a part of her body. It’s another body inside of hers. “…stop jacking off every night…” Sperm doesn’t have its own DNA strand. It’s only got half the information required to make a human. It’s not the same thing at all.

    thundercaya:

    “If it was human we’d call it a fucking human.”

    Let’s not forget all the groups who were at one time not considered human.

    “It’s the mother’s fetus.”

    Except that it has its own DNA strand, not identical to that of the mother. It’s not a part of her body. It’s another body inside of hers.

    “…stop jacking off every night…”

    Sperm doesn’t have its own DNA strand. It’s only got half the information required to make a human. It’s not the same thing at all.

  5. sword-meets-rose: rainyautumntwilight: inmytsinelas: it’s interesting because this could be seen from both sides of the abortion argument. yes, this can be seen as furthering the pro-choice movement because it calls out flaws in many people who claim to be pro-life, but actually only care about the fetus. however, it’s also a call to everyone that is pro-life to understand that we are standing up for EVERYONE’s rights - womb to tomb. and please, don’t assume that every pro-life supporter is only interested in babies to prove your point. once you’ve proven your point, is the world better? no. is your pride and ego feeling better? most likely. instead, why not encourage people to fight for these and every human being’s rights. Dude, I am totally passionate about being against war, hunger, poverty, homelessness, the planet’s degradation, and capital punishment; as well as being for human rights and opportunities for education and jobs. I feel for these just as much as I do for being pro-life.  This commentary.

    sword-meets-rose:

    rainyautumntwilight:

    inmytsinelas:

    it’s interesting because this could be seen from both sides of the abortion argument.

    yes, this can be seen as furthering the pro-choice movement because it calls out flaws in many people who claim to be pro-life, but actually only care about the fetus.

    however, it’s also a call to everyone that is pro-life to understand that we are standing up for EVERYONE’s rights - womb to tomb.

    and please, don’t assume that every pro-life supporter is only interested in babies to prove your point. once you’ve proven your point, is the world better? no. is your pride and ego feeling better? most likely. instead, why not encourage people to fight for these and every human being’s rights.

    Dude, I am totally passionate about being against war, hunger, poverty, homelessness, the planet’s degradation, and capital punishment; as well as being for human rights and opportunities for education and jobs. I feel for these just as much as I do for being pro-life. 

    This commentary.

  6. catholicthirst:

    themorningstars:

    badwolfcomplex:

    cultureoflife:

    Every Planned Parenthood provides life-saving mammograms, right? Nope.

    Seriously. Watch this.

    Oh, Planned Parenthood. If you didn’t repulse me so much, I would find you funny.

    The president of Planned Parenthood blatantly LYING about the services provided at PP. Planned Parenthood does NOT provide mammograms, as many people believe. The only breast exams they offer are the same ones that a woman can get at any free clinic or even do on herself in the shower.

    So yeah…

    Thank you, Susan G Komen for the Cure, for withdrawing your support for Planned Parenthood! I’m so glad I can finally give you my support in good conscience! May you always work toward the health of women and keep your money out of the hands of an organization whose services are simply perpetuating the breast cancer epidemic of this day and age.

  7. nikosnature: impuretale: This is the most ignorant thing I’ve read all day, and if this were a freshman level paper you would have failed it for drawing false analogies. Forcing someone to undergo an unwanted pregnancy is a violation of civil rights. A fetus, that is nonsentient (and will not even be self aware until six months after birth) that cannot survive autonomously (that means without being hooked up to another living being’s internal organs and life support system) is not entitled to civil rights and is not entitled to violate the civil rights of a person who is capable of consenting to have their body used of an incubator. Don’t liken abortion to civil rights issues like voting rights and racial issues. It devalues people who have actually suffered discrimination. Don’t liken it to points in history like British Rule and the Cold War — one was about taxation and having consent to rule taken away and the other was about the fear of nuclear war. Temporary points in our history, which I suppose would have been your oh-so-clever point, save that abortions have been taking place since the dawn of freaking time. Let’s break this down: Forcing someone to undergo an unwanted pregnancy is a violation of civil rights. Oh, and which civil right is this violating? A fetus, that is nonsentient 1.  A fetus is sentient.  It is simply sedated when inside the womb, so you can’t tell.  But we know fetuses are sentient because premature babies, who would otherwise BE fetuses, are sentient. 2.  A person in a coma is nonsentient during the time that they are in the coma, are you going to suggest that they are not people? and will not even be self aware until six months after birth So, what about infants, are they not people until 6 months after birth? that cannot survive autonomously (that means without being hooked up to another living being’s internal organs and life support system) 1. Actually, that is not the definition of ‘survive autonomously.’  Survive means to ‘remain alive’ while autonomously means ‘not controlled by outside forces.’  Therefore, the definition would be, ‘to remain alive and not controlled by outside forces.’ I don’t think many of us can claim to be completely independent, therefore, none of us ‘survive autonomously.’ 2.  There is no reason to make the distinction between being reliant on another person or being reliant on machine life support.  That shouldn’t affect your personhood, because personhood is innate, it is defined by what you are, not what the person or thing you are dependent on is.  Therefore, if fetuses are not people, people who are reliant on regularly administered medicine, life support, or oxygen machines, to live are not people. 3.  Independence is not a part of the human experience.  Humans weave many layers of interdependence between each other.  Therefore, your claim that fetuses are not people because they are dependent on someone is laughable. is not entitled to civil rights Since you cannot show that they are not people, you also cannot show that they are not entitled to civil rights. is not entitled to violate the civil rights of a person who is capable of consenting to have their body used of an incubator. 1.  A fetus was put in the womb without its consent. 2.  The mother consented to the act which would have put the child in her womb. 3.  A mother who chooses abortion violates the right to life of her child. Don’t liken abortion to civil rights issues like voting rights and racial issues. It devalues people who have actually suffered discrimination. No it doesn’t.  It is actually honoring them.  Because of their sacrifices we recognize now that discrimination is wrong, and we are using their memories in order to remind us of our duty to stop the injustice of abortion. Don’t liken it to points in history like British Rule and the Cold War — one was about taxation and having consent to rule taken away and the other was about the fear of nuclear war. I don’t see the logical progression here.  You described the causes of the Revolutionary and the Cold war, yet I don’t understand how that means that I can’t liken abortion to those wars. Temporary points in our history, Just like abortion will be. which I suppose would have been your oh-so-clever point, save that abortions have been taking place since the dawn of freaking time. Colonization and imperialism, slavery, discrimination, and conflict have also taken place since the dawn of time.  But through legislation, cultural change, and greater awareness, we have succeeded in lessening the global impact of those evil actions.  Similarly, through legislation, cultural change, and greater awareness, we will get rid of abortion.  My bet is that it will be illegal worldwide within my generation.

    nikosnature:

    impuretale:

    This is the most ignorant thing I’ve read all day, and if this were a freshman level paper you would have failed it for drawing false analogies.

    Forcing someone to undergo an unwanted pregnancy is a violation of civil rights. A fetus, that is nonsentient (and will not even be self aware until six months after birth) that cannot survive autonomously (that means without being hooked up to another living being’s internal organs and life support system) is not entitled to civil rights and is not entitled to violate the civil rights of a person who is capable of consenting to have their body used of an incubator.

    Don’t liken abortion to civil rights issues like voting rights and racial issues. It devalues people who have actually suffered discrimination. Don’t liken it to points in history like British Rule and the Cold War — one was about taxation and having consent to rule taken away and the other was about the fear of nuclear war. Temporary points in our history, which I suppose would have been your oh-so-clever point, save that abortions have been taking place since the dawn of freaking time.

    Let’s break this down:

    Forcing someone to undergo an unwanted pregnancy is a violation of civil rights.

    Oh, and which civil right is this violating?

    A fetus, that is nonsentient

    1.  A fetus is sentient.  It is simply sedated when inside the womb, so you can’t tell.  But we know fetuses are sentient because premature babies, who would otherwise BE fetuses, are sentient.

    2.  A person in a coma is nonsentient during the time that they are in the coma, are you going to suggest that they are not people?

    and will not even be self aware until six months after birth

    So, what about infants, are they not people until 6 months after birth?

    that cannot survive autonomously (that means without being hooked up to another living being’s internal organs and life support system)

    1. Actually, that is not the definition of ‘survive autonomously.’  Survive means to ‘remain alive’ while autonomously means ‘not controlled by outside forces.’  Therefore, the definition would be, ‘to remain alive and not controlled by outside forces.’ I don’t think many of us can claim to be completely independent, therefore, none of us ‘survive autonomously.’

    2.  There is no reason to make the distinction between being reliant on another person or being reliant on machine life support.  That shouldn’t affect your personhood, because personhood is innate, it is defined by what you are, not what the person or thing you are dependent on is.  Therefore, if fetuses are not people, people who are reliant on regularly administered medicine, life support, or oxygen machines, to live are not people.

    3.  Independence is not a part of the human experience.  Humans weave many layers of interdependence between each other.  Therefore, your claim that fetuses are not people because they are dependent on someone is laughable.

    is not entitled to civil rights

    Since you cannot show that they are not people, you also cannot show that they are not entitled to civil rights.

    is not entitled to violate the civil rights of a person who is capable of consenting to have their body used of an incubator.

    1.  A fetus was put in the womb without its consent.

    2.  The mother consented to the act which would have put the child in her womb.

    3.  A mother who chooses abortion violates the right to life of her child.

    Don’t liken abortion to civil rights issues like voting rights and racial issues. It devalues people who have actually suffered discrimination.

    No it doesn’t.  It is actually honoring them.  Because of their sacrifices we recognize now that discrimination is wrong, and we are using their memories in order to remind us of our duty to stop the injustice of abortion.

    Don’t liken it to points in history like British Rule and the Cold War — one was about taxation and having consent to rule taken away and the other was about the fear of nuclear war.

    I don’t see the logical progression here.  You described the causes of the Revolutionary and the Cold war, yet I don’t understand how that means that I can’t liken abortion to those wars.

    Temporary points in our history,

    Just like abortion will be.

    which I suppose would have been your oh-so-clever point, save that abortions have been taking place since the dawn of freaking time.

    Colonization and imperialism, slavery, discrimination, and conflict have also taken place since the dawn of time.  But through legislation, cultural change, and greater awareness, we have succeeded in lessening the global impact of those evil actions.  Similarly, through legislation, cultural change, and greater awareness, we will get rid of abortion.  My bet is that it will be illegal worldwide within my generation.

  8. badwolfcomplex: Pro-Life Testimony

    badwolfcomplex:

    Pro-Life Testimony

  9. »  Random Ramblings of a Ragamuffin: Why the fetus's 'right to life' supersedes the mother's right to bodily autonomy

    thecultofcraze:

    thepapists:

    What is more important? A person’s ‘right to body autonomy’ or the same person’s ‘right to life?’

    A person can live without body autonomy, one cannot have bodily autonomy without being alive. Therefore, the right to life supersedes the right to bodily…

  10. “What about a woman whose unborn baby is diagnosed as deformed or handicapped?”

    cultureoflife:

    1)  The doctor’s diagnosis is sometimes wrong.

    2) The child’s deformity is often minor.

    3) Medical tests for deformity may cause as many problems as they detect.

    4) Handicapped children are often happy, always precious, and usually delighted to be alive.

    5) Handicapped children are not social liabilities, and bright and “normal” people are not always social assets.

    6) Using dehumanizing language may change our thinking, but not the child’s nature or value.

    7) Our society is hypocritical in its attitude toward handicapped children.

    8) The adverse psychological effects of abortion are significantly more traumatic for those who abort because of deformity.

    9) The arguments for killing a handicapped unborn child are valid only if they also apply to killing born people who are handicapped.

    10) Abortions due to probable handicaps rob the world of unique human beings who would significantly contribute to society.

    11) Abortions due to imperfections have no logical stopping place; they will lead to designer babies, commercial products to be bred and marketed, leaving other people to be regarded as inferior and disposable. 

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